Tol’Barad is (has) a PvP zone.
I like PvP.
I like PvP so much that after getting to 85, all I have done on Gnomeaggedon is PvP.
I did try leveling via Battlegrounds with Squidly, but what I found was soul destroying. One SotA involved one player boarding a Demo (me), 2 players fighting the Horde (ineffectively) and 12 players… don’t know what they were doing, but they weren’t near the action. After 4 similar BGs I gave up and quested with Squidly.
As I mentioned earlier, I PvP’d with Gnomeaggedon once I hit level 85… for 2 weeks straight. Heaps of the 15 man’s led by Staylaughing/Sen’jin from QueueQ.
We averaged about 50 honor each battle, but they were fun and it was an honor being a part of the crew helping Qesta/Frostwolf achieve Battlemaster.
There were also a few Alterac Valleys thrown in, at about 100 honor per battle they are still about the best honor, although the Horde did force many a turtle.
Randoms were reasonable honor, 45 for a loss, 100 for a win, 200 for the 1st win of the day.
Call to Arms weekends were a write-off – no bonus honor for the Alliance, just for the Horde – not going to happen!
I have run a great mix of BGs growing to love the new ones.
I have singlehandedly gained the Horde Slayer achievement for my (old) guild.
I have collected a full set of the honor PvP gear, via, believe it or not… PvP.
Which is where Tol’Barad gets my blood boiling, gets me cursing my non-PvPing mates and sending frustrated twitters to Blizzard.
Prior to New Years Eve, I ran a few TB’s that while losses, were still fulfilling. There was lots of fighting, you know player vs. player, Alliance wasn’t quite grasping the idea that two nodes wasn’t enough and were madly racing from node to node.
Still, I thought it had potential.
WTF is Tol’Barad?
Just in case you aren’t aware of what exactly Tol’Barad is, here’s an overview.
Tol’Barad PvP zone is associated with, but separate to Tol’Barad the PvE zone.
Approximately every 2 hours (from the end of the previous battle), the zone come up for grabs. Winning the zone opens another set of PvE daily quests, and currently a bucketload of honor.
Actually, it’s a shitload of honor, but I’ll get to that.
The objective is simple… The attacker must cap (via force of bodies, similar to EotS), all 3 bases. As soon as the 3rd base completes capping (and 3 bases are held), the battle is won for the attacker.
The defender has a simpler task, prevent the capping of all 3 bases while there is time on the clock. Done properly, this may lead to a longish battle with lots of PvP (although if you don’t let them cap a base, extra time isn’t added).
In reality, as long as the defenders can hold one base through the timer, they will maintain control of TB.
Of course this is a part of the problem. The first few TBs I ran, we lost because the Horde just held on long enough, each time, every time.
Which leads to the current solution:
Trading Tol’Barad
Every two hours the defenders… don’t defend, they give it away.
Here, take the PvP zone… it’s not like we want to fight over it!
Two hours later, it’s turned over once again.
Two hours is plenty of time to complete all your dailies and there is an added bonus if you are lucky enough to be one of the FEW attackers in the game.
FEW?
Yeah, well Blizzards new PvP zone balancing system, which matches the quantity of combatants on each side, means that if only 5 defenders show up (they are giving it away, so why join up right?), then only 5 attackers can participate.
Have I mentioned that I like to PvP… I’m in a queue that will never be fulfilled, because there are people there that don’t want to PvP.
So we have a PvP zone that no one can get into, in which people rollover rather than fight, that awards a shitload of honor for practically nothing!
How much honor?
Assuming you don’t have the Win Tol’Barad quest (worth 89 honor), you receive about 100 honor for a loss (about the same as a win in a random BG), but for a win you get 1,800 honor.
1,800 honor!
1,800 HONOR!
The equivalent of:
9 (first) random BG wins
18 random BG wins
9 Alterac Valley wins
18 wins in another selected BG
18 random BG losses
Comparing AV wins to a TB win…
1 x 10 minute TB win = 9 x 30 minute AV wins (wins which aren’t gaurranteed). 10 minutes, vs 4.5 hours… by which point you could have signed up for a TB loss (100 honor) and another win (1,800 honor).
So 4.5 hours will get you:
Alterac Valley = 1,800 honor (wins assumed)
Tol’Barad = 3,700 honor.
Combatant balancing to the rescue.
Luckily the game is balanced, so if only 5 defenders appear, then only 5 attackers can join and only 5 people get the 1,800 honor… right? RIGHT?
WRONG!
Remember that screenshot from Cataclysm launch post of mine, of the flight trainer drowning in customers?
That’s what the bridge into Tol’Barad looks like when we are attacking (and I’m sure it’s the same for the Horde).
You see if you time it so that you are on the bridge as the last base caps, you too will receive the honor, for doing nothing but run back and forth on a bridge!
Why this really pisses me off
I worked hard for 2 weeks, in the battlegrounds, doing what you do in BGs… fighting to win, defending against people that want to win… FIGHTING!
Some of the pieces of PvP gear cost 2,200 honor, just over one Tol’Barad, that you don’t even need to participate in! Or, alternatively, 22 AVs or 44 of the other BGs.
I did it the hard way and I’m pissed off!
If Blizzard intends this, just send the whole frickin PvP set to every character in the game.
It pisses me off even more that there are some players that absolutely hate PvP, that are “joining in” TB to get the honor, to get the PvP gear.
One friend of mine would run screaming from a level 1 Gnome that tried to duel him. He hates PvP with a passion. Yet, every 4 hours he is in the queue, taking the place of someone THAT WANTS TO PVP!
Pissed off!
If the Tol’Barad “honor” bought lesser versions of PvP gear, similar to Wintergrasp Marks, of a quality similar to crafted PvP gear, I wouldn’t be so pissed, but it isn’t, and I am!
14 pieces of gear
2750 total honor
439 games played (at 50 per win) vs 13 Tol’Barads
Gnomer and Out!
PS: I know this has now been fixed and the honor is more in the vicinity of 400… still, is one Tol’Barad worth 8 normal Battleground wins? Don’t answer that.. it isn’t and gaining TB gives many more rewards… daily quests giving access to gear… a boss to kill… blah blah blah
PPS: Yes I have left my Guild, Armaggedon’s Coming!. What’s worse is I left in in the paws of a Warlock (she is still a bunny to me). I am now a member of Streakers, who I have mentioned before.
/wave Streaker readers!
http://gnomeaggedon.net/2011/01/09/tolbarad-wtf/
This work is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-Noncommercial-Share Alike 3.0 Unported License.
*GASP*
you left Armaggedon’s Coming?? O.o
ok, ok, back to the point of your column:
i haven’t run TB yet (and i INSIST on calling it “TB”, because it makes hordies twitch… it USED to mean “thunder bluff,” haha!), but i hope to try it this weekend. i miss PvP… i haven’t run anything since the shattering! too busy getting used to the changes and then leveling.
you’ll be heartened, in a way, to learn that — at least on my server — it appears that the whole “win-trading” thing has fallen through, and it appears it was the horde side’s fault. the dominant guilds agreed to trade wins, and then when it came to the horde’s turn to trade, they held the place. then repeated it for 3 or 4 more turns. so, deal OFF, regular BG back ON.
…at least, that’s what i’ve gathered from my realm’s forums.
not only left it, but left it in the hands of a Warlock…
Ohh the shame…
looks like the win trading has fallen through on Aman’Thul too.. had some hard fought losses (/sigh) over the last couple of days.
In a way I’m not fussed about the win trading… it sucks…
What I am pissed off about is that Blizzard would allow such a system to go live… and stay live for so long.
I understand they are trying to simplify the honor system, and that they want to encourage people into PvP (thus the honor for the gear)… but to what end?
My “friend” that was soaking the honor didn’t want it for PvP, he wanted it for… PvE at a guess… easier than Instance grinds and more consistent than quest items.
But.. as shown in the post, if someone is prepared to do 300 odd BGs (actual pvp), surely they should be wearing better gear than someone that isn’t even AFKing.. just running on a bridge outside a locked PvP area.
Poor Gnome
I also enjoy PvP, but Tol’barad was my first level 85 PvP experience, so when I qued for a random and got such a tiny amount of honor compared to TB, it made it seem like, what’s the point?
TB definitely needs some work, I was excited about it at first, but for now I just hate it, lol.
That’s the thing… TB isn’t a good introduction to PvP, it is frustrating to be on the losing side (which is pretty easy) and doesn’t prepare you for the real BGs when you win.. or the taste of blood that comes with it
Sounds like things are a bit different these days.
How do you rate the expansion and what server are you on these days?
- Zupa
Depends on the time of the day.
Overall, I’d give it a 8/10.
- Excellent quest lines (not that you would ever do them…).
- Couple of new BGs that are a lot of fun (both 10 man.. kinda WSG & EotS)
- Instances… really good, especially 1st time around (something I didn’t experience so much in WoLK)
- Raids.. well only stuck my head in two… and we had to work for the kill in one and gave up for the time being in the other.
- The class mechanics (speaking from the Mage perspective at least) are great. For the 1st time ever I feel I need to kite and love every minute of it. Squidly on the other hand can stand shot & heal… Gnome has more fun.
That said, I think Cataclysm has reintroduced the grind… big time.
- grind for gear x multiple levels
- grind your professions
- grind the new profession (Archeology)
- grind the rep
- grind the guild rep
- grind
- grind
- grind
So long term… maybe only 5/10 (but then, who knows in 6 months)
For you, that only plays for the 1st 6 months of an expansion anyway… it would be as fun as any short life game… it’s worth if for that at least.
Still on Aman’Thul.. I was invited over to Sen’jin by Staylaughing, but long time real life friends on Aman’Thul and Streakers are a great guild, more specifically great group of people.
The big problem with TB isn’t the honor but the advantage it gives towards defenders. It’s practically impossible to win as an attacker
I think the honor for winning now (360) is decent enough and well balanced but unfortunately it’s too late to fix the damage from the 1,800 honor exploit fiasco. Almost everyone has a full set of PvP gear now making it very hard to compete in BGs if you don’t!
Definitely hard as attackers… although to be honest, piles of Alliance taking a base, then leaving 3 to defend against a marauding Horde…
If we assume that you can win 1 in 4, or worse, then I think the honor fits… still not entirely happy with it being such a large amount of honor in an environment that you can easily get away with doing sweet fa.
We are finding the same in the BGs… 3 weeks where there was no bonus honor for Alliance in Call to Arms weekends (it was bugged so it was removed from Alliance tabs), yet the bonus honor was available for Horde (as I have been told anyway) has unbalanced that side as well.
Quote: “Approximately every 2 hours (from the end of the previous battle), the zone come up for grabs. ”
Just for your info: that may be a nice approximation, but as far as I know the actual rule is even simpler: TB (just like WG) starts every 2.5 hours. That is: exactly 2.5 hours from the *start* of the previous battle. The only time that rule is broken is when there is server maintenance.
I guess the reason for that somewhat weird time interval is that it makes the start times shift by an hour every day (there are 10 battles in 25 hours), so everyone gets a fair chance at joining, no matter what their daily rhytm is …
Ahh that would explain it… I often see numbers like 2:15 till next battle, wasn’t sure what it was based on, but they were the times when they were traded quickly.
thanks for that clarification!
Don’t worry Gnomer, Mages and Warlocks can be friends in a PvE environment. I mean obviously I still seek to embarass them as much as possible when it comes to DPS but by and large I will actively seek to group with guildie locks to do a heroic.
Ofc PvP is another matter entirely and the squeal of a dying Gnome (sorry Gnomer but I do like killing gnomes) as they get hit up by a beautiful shatter combo is comparable to Verde’s Requiem.
In fact I haven’t bothered with PvP much throughout Wrath but in Cataclysm I’m having a blast. Have I mentioned how much I’m enjoying Frost lately?
Ha RunsWithExtinguishedFire
I’m happy to say that the primary Lock in Streakers has a healthy relationship with the 150,000,000 Mages in the guild… ie. we can enjoy a bit of Lock v. Mage banter without anyone’s Gnome getting hurt.
Warriors on the other hand…
My poly addon makes a pig’s (boar’s) squeal when broken… tell me I am not polymorphing the primary target constantly just for that sound… go on tell me…