We lost, didn't get the towers down
Wintergrasp is like every other battleground.
- 8/10 players believe the objective is to kill or die. HK’s are the reason to play.
- 2/10 players know there are objectives, try for the objectives and get frustrated by the honor farmers.
I found myself explaining the significance of the towers to two people over the weekend. Luckily both were friends, so they listened.
There are guides, but who reads them?
I know there are guides out there, I read a few of them back at the time of release, then promptly forgot everything they tried to inform me.
It’s not the fault of the guides, it’s more that (in particular with BG guides) I need to experience a zone, instance or fight before the pieces of the puzzle click.
BG’s are also so simple on the surface.
- Zone in…
- Follow the masses (they must know what to do!)…
- Kill things
- Rez
- Kill more things
- Pray for a win
There are so many toys!
WG is further complicated by the lure of machinery. The Goblins built tool sheds, they will let us take the tools, screw objectives, I’ve got a tank!
So what is the objective?
The prime objective depends which side you are on. It’s still the same physical objective, but one wants to reach it, the other wants to stop this happening.
You may not have noticed the big orb in the keep… Just in front of the entrance to VoA, next to the portal to Dalaran and the summoning stone.
You may not have noticed because it’s so big. It probably just fills your screen and becomes another piece of Blizzard artwork to ignore.
That is the objective!
- As defenders you don’t want the enemy breaking down the doors to touch it.
- As attackers, that Orb is more important than nearly anything.
The tools of victory.
Once you have scored 5 honor kills you reach the rank of Corporal. This entitles you to visit a workshop and get the plague spewing catapults.
These are primarily for use against other players, but can be used against walls and towers. They aren’t particularly effective, but they are better than trying to scrape the mortar from the walls with your dagger.
Once you get 20 HK’s you can use the bigger, more effective siege weapons.
Attackers use these to break down the keep walls, defenders use them to do laps of Wintergrasp.
But that’s not what they are for!
When you are attacking, it’s easy to see where to point your siege weapons. There’s a big keep with big walls, point your siege weapons at that and bring the walls down.
As defense it may not be so obvious, but trust me, there is a use for these machines of war, which I will get to in just a minute.
Make the Workshops work for you!
There are also 6 workshops scattered around the map, two of these within the keep.
Control of these provides 3 benefits.
- You can build machines (just to state the blatantly obvious)
- They determine the maximum number of machines each side can have. Every one you hold entitles you to 4 machines.
- Controlling the workshop controls it’s related graveyard.
Workshops can win games
They can definitely have a major effect on a game. If the defense has all the workshops, then that’s 24 machines for them and 0 for the attackers.
Remember it’s hard to break walls down with a dagger.
However it takes a fair bit of effort to take and keep all the workshops, so you are more likely to slow, but not stop the enemies advance.
I don’t know how many games have been lost once all the workshops have been taken by the defenders and they go on a midfield rampage forgetting the 1/2 dozen enemy in the courtyard.
Forget the Front lines!
OK, don’t forget the front lines, you need people manning the walls, repelling the enemy, giving your commando units time to win the game for you.
They have commando units now?
Yep, accepting anyone that knows that there are better ways to win a game than trading scorches outside the front gate.
They need to go deep behind the enemy lines, to the bottom of the map.
Their objective is two fold.
- Take the workshops
- Destroy the towers.
Some workshops are better to lose than others.
One mistake a defending team makes is pushing to take the closest workshops to the keep.
This isn’t bad per se, but will just extent the battle and make it harder for the commandos at the back line.
Just as in AV, where there are certain GY’s you want the enemy to hold because it means they will spawn where YOU want them, it’s the same in WG with the towers.
Where do you want the attackers to spawn?
Near your strongest defense, which is the keep. You have big walls, big guns, siege weapons and lots of spellcasting, whirlwinding and healing bodies.
As importantly, you want them to spawn away from you commandos.
It’s human nature when you Rez in WG, you run to either:
- The battlefront – preferably where there are lots of allied bodies, or
- A controlled workshop.
If the controlled workshops are near the allied bodies, people will charge there without thought.
While they are looking in the wrong direction…
So now you have all the attackers at the front line, your commandos can get to work.
Get the workshops.
Killing the guards will raise your rank, as will any attackers hanging around the back line.
The more of you there:
- The easier it is to repel the enemy
- The quicker you will take the Workshop and it’s graveyard.
Remember these workshops are taken by the number of warm bodies.
- One warm friendly body = slow capture
- One warm friendly body + one warm enemy body = standoff.
- One warm enemy body = slow loss.
The more warm friendly bodies you have, the quicker you can capture the workshop.
Get some kills at the Towers.
The place I usually start is in the enemy towers (or one of the back workshops). The guns count as HKs as well, so I take them out in relative safety, as well as the guards when they spawn, then head to the nearest backline workshop to get some more HKs, take control of the Workshop and build me a machine of destruction.
Destroy the towers and win the game.
All being well there are some other objective-savvy players around too, otherwise do your best to take down the towers (if you are defenders) or hold the towers (if you are offense).
The towers buy time.
The towers represent time.
- If the attackers control them, they can take their time and use their daggers on the walls if need be.
- If the defenders control them (destroy them) time will evaporate for the attackers.
As defenders you must take all 3 towed down ASAP! Doing so drops the timer down to a few minutes.
For even a strong attack this means they will score the achievement if they can do this. Most attacks are that strong.
I have been in winning sides where even after the enemy has entered the courtyard we have won because we got that 3rd tower down.
I have been on losing sides where the attackers don’t have any workshops, but they controlled the towers.
WTF losses.
The majority of WG WTF losses (the ones where you appear to be in control, but still lose) are due to the towers still being up.
As the battle wears on, people start leaving the keep chasing HKs, while the enemy sneak in to win the game.
Get the Towers!
Heal FFS!
(Sorry Tam, it frustrates me that much)
Mr. Tree made an observation to me the other day, something I noticed as soon as I stopped running WG on Squidly and started on Gnome.
Heals matter!
If you have a healer or two out side the front gates when you are attacking, you probably haven’t died.
No heals = quick and humiliating deaths = no HKs = no use of siege engines.
So please, if you can heal. HEAL!
At least until we get the siege engines rolling.
Gnomer and Out, Squidly and Stout!
This work is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-Noncommercial-Share Alike 3.0 Unported License.
http://gnomeaggedon.net/2010/01/26/iits-about-the-towers-objectives-in-wintergrasp/
Great post!
A couple things counfound the ability of either team to really plan out an attack/defense, and biggest among them is the fact that you dont get grouped up until AFTER the Battle starts.
This means you can’t get a group together and head for the southeast tower and wait til the festivites start. You have to try to roganize something as dozens of people join raid, spam “man the walls” or “WEST!!!
Also,
If you happen to be in a party when it starts, you will NOT be part of one of the larger raid groups. Which means you can’t “hear” them, and they can’t hear you. Solitude for the loss (although the quiet trade/raid/general chat is a nice change pf pace…)
The lack of auto raid grouping annoys the he’ll out of me. Even if you drop group the only way to join the raid is to leave WG and reenter…
Back when I used to do wintergrasp, hubby and I would always go to the back and defend our towers. more often then not, it would buy our offense enough time to actually break through and win. Our side is outnumbered something like 4 to 1 and tenacity doesn’t mean much when you are swammed and stunlocked. Unless you are killing a fairly small strike force trying to cut down your offense time
interesting tip – while cats are not as effective against walls as other vehicles, they are quick and small enough to take inside the tower and destroy it from within. if tower defense wasn’t on the ball and got there before you did, by the time they figure out that you are on the inside – the tower is gone.
another tip – get to wintergrasp a few minutes early and head to the workshop you want to hold. Once the battle starts, instead of starting at the flightpoint (or inside the keep depending on what your current status is) – you start directly at the workshop (sometimes it ports you to that workshop’s graveyard, but you are still closer) even a smallest head start is still a head start
and while, no you cannot actually make sure you are in the same party on the raid frames, you can still organize people in general beforehand (if they are willing to listen of course)
This post should be required reading for anyone even thinking of entering Wintergrasp.
The level 78′s in PvE blues and greens bother me, but we can make up for that relatively small part of the population. After all, both factions deal with it. The AFK’er collecting ONE Wintergrasp Mark of Honor in victory also gets under my skin. But again, they make up a small chunk of the raid group most of the time. It’s the idiots who THINK they’re contributing that really irritate me.
Last night, there were so many clueless players from both factions grinding away at WG, three of us won the battle almost single-handedly. We were defending the Keep at the time. Myself and two others made our tour of the towers, destroying them one-by-one.
It wasn’t shocking that our fellow Hordies didn’t join us. It WAS surprising that the Allies made no attempt to defend them. So while everyone was running around racking up HK’s on both sides of the wall, three of us ensured victory for masses of clueless comrades.
Wow.
Nobody has ever told me about PVP objectives before. So *that’s* what I’m meant to be doing in there.
*lightbulb*
(yeah, I know I Could have done Research but I just assumed I’d miraculously acquire the necessary knowledge by some form of intellectual osmosis)
Actually my new hobby is PVP healing. I love it. I don’t anything BUT heal in there…but every time I’ve been presented at the battle we’ve won or held Wintergrasp.
It’s clearly me and mah healz. *nods*.
i love it when you write stuff like this.
i’m fully guilty of staying on the front line, but that’s where i figure i’m the most help. i’m becoming quite handy with the RPGs in taking out advancing vehicles. : )
BUT, i’ve been thinking lately of trying to help take down towers, so your post is just what i needed to see. next time, look out, towers!
I firmly believe the best way for a healer to prepare themselves for the stinky stuff hitting the whirly blades is to heal AV or WG. Everybody is likely to take damage and it will tend to be lots of damage.
It’s whack-a-mole on crack.
I never knew about the towers, I think that there should be a non-ranked (very low honor point reward) solo/small group version of each BG as sort of a tutorial mode. where a person can play around with stragety. Tho with special modification to the PVE death penalties since you are playing against the computer in these tutorial matches and not real peoples..
In fact, these should be account mandatory, some sort of BOA flag/item/reward for going through these things at least once. They would have to make the NPC’s much harder so that you were competing against reasonable fascimilies of player characters. (enough to keep it challenging, but not over powered.)
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