i may have a somewhat warped view of this since currently i am the guild resto shammy… meaning i rarely have competition for gear.

We apply these rules uni formally towards guildmates and pugs to be fair. We also ran that run over two days, but it was considered one run for loot purposes. So on the second day when we had 6 pugs with us, they all got at least one piece of loot if not more. So they were happy, and we cleared the instance. Although i was secretly jealous that some pieces that I could have gotten went to a pug, in the end i know it was all for the best, and everyone was happy.

Also, our loot leader made the pugs equip anything they got that was BOE to make sure they will wear it instead of selling it. They had to equip it and we would check so it’s there, not necessarily to keep running with it if it was not gemmed/enchanted. So we did not skimp out on any gear if anyone needed it.

And yeah.. think of it as a recruitment activity and worries about loot disappear.

@Cathy: yeah clear loot rules rool! Having pugged in another guilds run to get dkp (which I never got to spend, as it was a one off) and pugged in a guild run that allowed /roll (with restrictions), I’m all for letting puggers roll.

@*vlad*: “Don’t we play this game for fun?”. Agreed. I got to see Naxx 25, probably wont again, but it’s more than my mates because their guild wont pug the extra spots.
After running 10man ove this last weekend, I now know there is a significant difference in loot to.. both quality and quantity. You are more likely to miss out in a 10 man than a 25 man I think (in the long run anyway)
And yeah… don’t forget those badges… badges you don’t get in 10 man!

@Cathy (again): Yeah, kick them early if they are providing no benefit and will compete for gear (or at least tell them there is a minimum performance requirement to be able to roll)

@Darraxus: Ultimately the reason it hurts the guildy more is because “they desrve it”, but in reality, without the pug they would never have had the chance at the loot.

@Arioch: Yeah reserve items sound like a good idea (stated up front), and after my Naxx10 over the weekend where we formed 5-6 members of the raid, I think we did fine (Well I did fine )
As for friends lists… most of the folks on our run are now firmly in our friends list… except that Hunter…

@Feight: It all sounds win-win… well done on puching the idea I am happy the results were great!

@kyrilean: Good arguement! I must admit I don’t understand why they don’t just go… if they did it once, I bet they would do it again.

@repgrind: Proof positive that it is worth pugging the extras… and your “alts” remind me.. guild don’t care so much if it is an alt that gets geared, but don’t under any circumstances let the outsider pick up the gear.
As for your naked trolls.. apparently we are related…

@Syrana: “I’d rather be able to say I missed out on winning a piece than to have never gotten so close to it.” Great attitude to have… and it would be the same if you lost it to a guildy or not.

@Dongolev: “IMO, a raid ID unused is a raid ID wasted.” Nuff said!

@Moondancer: Funnily enough, I am more shy or guild “alliances”. I think things tend to go astray when guilds start sharing… tensions rise, players leave… I dunno… maybe just some bad guild experiences.

@Sherry: Ohhhh, that would have been an occasion to walk away from the PC for a bit…
I fear that the “no-one will have it” attitude is at work here, and as you say, with some simple loot rules this can be, at least moderated, if not prevented.

My (as opposed to my mate’s) guild loot rules are: (Note also, they are not pugs… they are GUESTS)

GUILD MEMBERS
2 main-spec items per raid
2 off-spec items per raid

Rule #1:
if a raid member has been fortunate enough to acquire their two items for the current raid, and a third (main spec) item drops – providing no one else in the raid rolls for the item the (lucky) member may then offer to sacrifice one main spec roll in the next raid in which they participate.

Rule #2:
should a member fill their entire raid quota of 2 main specs and 2 off specs items – they may only roll for an additional off-spec piece if no one else in the entire raid wants the item. ie. rather than have it disenchanted, it goes to a member who can use it.

Rule #3:
dual spec characters may roll for either spec, however they must nominate the specific spec they are rolling for at the commencement of the raid. dual specs have exactly the same eligibilities as pure specs. no more – no less.

Rule # 4:
should a specific class (ie tank) of gear type drop be prevalent, and two raid members have already received their quota of items for a raid, then a loot council shall preside on the distribution of the additional items. two possible outcomes are foreseen: a third item allocation will be awarded, or someone with a dual spec may roll.

Guest Players
one tiered piece per raid
two non tiered pieces per raid

Rule # 1:
should an additional item drop in which guest raiders have an interest, they may only roll if no other raid member rolls on that item.

My alts guild does, they might have 7-8 for a 10 man or 12 for a 25 man plus 4-5 people who used to be in the guild or are friends of people in the guild plus 7-8 pugs from trade/lfg channel.

1 shot KT 25 last three weeks, Pugged Uldaar 10 first three bosses and Uldaar 25 1st boss.

For some people, they would rather never see the loot drop than have someone undeserving (either factually or in their view) win it over them.

I think the problem can be solved pretty well for a full naxx run using the following rules however, which I used to use for weekend guild alt + pug raids.

Naxx 25
2 Mainspec Rolls, only consumed when you win the item over another person.
(e.g. if you’re the only one who rolled, it doesn’t get consumed, if you rolled but lost, it also doesn’t get consumed)

Offspec items go on a round robin, if you get an offspec item this time round, another person will get the item next time.

This solves a lot of issues, at least until Kel’Thuzard.
It ensures that undergeared people will get as many gear as they want if no one else wants them, as well as preserve the value of highly sought after items for people willing to save their 2 mainspec rolls.

My feelings on drops are if you run you should have a chance to roll on it whether you are part of the guild or not. My Horde toons are in a guild that do have enough people so PUGs aren’t really an issue. Occasionally we’ve filled a role with someone that no one knows but that is rare but they had a chance to roll on loot too. They contributed to the run just like everyone else and the guild wouldn’t have been able to make that run without the PUGS.

The gear most likely will drop again, and everyone will eventually get the gear needed. People play for various reasons. Sure new gear is nice but it’s definitely not the reason I play.

My guild has nicknamed Monday “Pugday” because it’s the day before raid ID resets and if you’re unsaved to a raid, go ahead and pug it, unless we’ve been lazy buggers for the week and haven’t killed KT or something.

Loot is, loot. /shrug Sure, there’s stuff I want, but I’d rather be able to say I missed out on winning a piece than to have never gotten so close to it.